The two sides just reached a settlement that will have a major impact on the state’s carbon emissions.

Megan Hall: Welcome to Possibly, where we take on huge problems like the future of our planet, and break them down into small questions with unexpected answers. I’m Megan Hall.

In the summer of 2022, 14 young people in Hawai’i filed a lawsuit against the state’s Department of Transportation, saying they weren’t doing enough to reach the state’s climate goals. The two sides recently reached a settlement, and we had our reporters Juliana Merullo and Will Malloy look into it for us.

Juliana Merullo: Hiya Megan!

Will Malloy: Hey there!

Megan Hall: So what was this lawsuit about?

Juliana Merullo: Basically, this group of young people said Hawai’i’s Department of Transportation, or HDOT, was violating two parts of the state constitution. The first is their right to a clean and healthful environment.

Will Malloy: And the second is called the “public trust doctrine.”

Megan Hall: What’s that?

Juliana Merullo: To find out, we talked to Marti Townsend. She works with the organization Earthjustice, one of the firms that represented the plaintiffs.

Marti Townsend: The state has an obligation to manage natural and cultural resources in a way that does not hurt the interests and actually benefits the interests of Native Hawaiians and future generations.

Will Malloy: Many of the young people who filed the lawsuit are Native Hawaiians, and all of them had stories of how climate change has affected their lives.

Juliana Merullo: Some talked about how extreme rains and droughts are impacting their families’ farms. Others explained how sea level rise and changes in ocean temperatures are destroying coral reefs and fish populations they rely on.

Megan Hall: Ok, but why were they suing the Department of Transportation?

Juliana Merullo: Right now, transportation makes up almost half of Hawaii’s total emissions.

Will Malloy: The plaintiffs say that HDOT has continued to support projects that won’t help the state meet its climate goals of being carbon neutral by 2045. Reducing those emissions would be a key way to address climate change.

Juliana Merullo: So even if individuals are still driving their gas cars on state roads and taking flights between islands, Marti says that

Marti Townsend: There is quite a bit that the department of transportation can do to help us as individual system users to get around without carbon. And it’s things like, you know, providing the infrastructure for charging stations. It’s things like, you know, encouraging decisions that favor public transportation, buses for example.

Megan Hall: That makes sense. So what did the settlement win for the youth plaintiffs?

Will Malloy: HDOT now has a year to come up with a full roadmap to reach the target of zero emissions in 2045. This includes setting smaller goals that they have to meet every five years.

Juliana Merullo: And young people will have a say in all of this! The settlement also creates a new youth council, with at least two of the youth plaintiffs, as well as other young people who want to get involved. They’ll help give input on the plan, and get updates from HDOT.

Will Malloy: Marti also says that,

Marti Townsend: The key difference about this lawsuit versus other commitments that we’ve made in the past is that we have the court behind us to enforce any commitments that are made.

Megan Hall: That’s great! But looking at the big picture, what does this case mean?

Juliana Merullo: This was a really big win for the youth climate movement and the climate movement broadly. And it’s not just symbolic! As Marti says,

Marti Townsend: We got what we came for, and we got it faster than we expected.

Will Malloy: This is the second successful youth climate case in the past few years, after young people in Montana won a lawsuit against the state in 2023.

Juliana Merullo: Both states have clauses in their constitutions guaranteeing the right to a clean and healthful environment. So we’ll have to pay attention to court cases in other states with that same right.

Will Malloy: Young people are proving a point – state agencies’ decisions will affect us and future generations moving forward.

Megan Hall: Good to know! Thanks Juliana and Will.

That’s it for today. For more information, or to ask a question about the way your choices affect our planet, go to askpossibly.org Or subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.

You can also follow us on Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn or X at  “askpossibly”

Possibly is a co-production of Brown University’s Institute for Environment and Society, Brown’s Climate Solutions Initiative, and the Public’s Radio.

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Megan Hall: Welcome to Possibly, where we take on huge problems, like the future of our planet, and break them down into small questions with unexpected answers. I’m Megan Hall. 

Today’s question comes from a listener here in Rhode Island. They’ve been following local efforts to pass a bottle bill- that’s where you get money back when you return your bottles and cans. They’re wondering, do these programs really work? 

We had Juliana Merullo and Will Malloy from our Possibly team look into this question! 

Juliana Merullo: Hiya Megan! 

Will Malloy: Hey there! 

Megan Hall: So, tell me more about these “bottle bills” How do they work? 

Juliana Merullo: Bottle bills create what’s known as “Deposit recycling programs”. Right now they exist in 10 states across the US. 

Will Malloy: Each state has a slightly different version, but it’s basically a law that establishes a deposit system for drink containers made of aluminum, plastic, or glass. 

Juliana Merullo: When you buy one of these drinks in a store, the price includes a small deposit charge, anywhere from 5 to 15 cents. Then when you bring empty containers back to a store or return center for recycling, you get that deposit back! 

Megan Hall: This sounds like a pretty good way to encourage people to recycle. Does it work? 

Juliana Merullo: Good question! To find out, we spoke with Caroline Cecot. She’s a law professor at George Mason University who’s published studies looking into how effective these bills really are. She says, 

Caroline Cecot: Studies show that bottle bills are an effective way to increase recycling of covered materials, and even sometimes uncovered materials.

Megan Hall: Uncovered materials?

Juliana Merullo: That means even products like paper that aren’t part of the deposit program get recycled more too!

Megan Hall: How big of a difference do these bills make?

Will Malloy:  Well, recycling rates for glass bottles are more than 20% higher in states that have bottle bills versus states that don’t.

Megan Hall: Ok, but how do we know it’s actually the bottle bills that make the difference? 

Juliana Merullo: We asked Caroline the same thing. 

Caroline Cecot: One study that I like looked at those people who moved from a state without a bottle bill into a state that actually has a bottle bill, and that study found that their recycling increased by 41%, which is a big effect if you think about it. And this suggests that the law is what makes a difference.

Will Malloy: Another example comes from Oregon and Connecticut, which both had bottle bills, but expanded them in 2009 to include plastic water bottles. 

Juliana Merullo: Researchers compared plastic bottle recycling rates before and after the law was changed, and found that there was a 15% increase in recycling once that small incentive was in place. 

Will Malloy: And it turns out there are other benefits to these programs beyond just recycling rates! 

Juliana Merullo: When you bring your containers to a redemption center, you feed them into a machine one by one. But they can get rejected if they’re dirty or not totally empty.

Will Malloy: This means that these recyclables are often cleaner than the same containers in curbside pickup, making them more likely to actually be recycled! 

Juliana Merullo: These bills have also been found to reduce litter! Anyone can turn in containers to get the deposit back, even if they didn’t buy it in the first place. When I was a kid growing up in Massachusetts, I used to pick up cans and bottles on the side of the road to turn in for pocket money! 

Megan Hall: So why don’t all states have these programs? 

Will Malloy: Some people argue that curbside recycling programs are much more convenient for people, and therefore make it more likely that people will actually recycle at all! 

Megan Hall: Is that true?

Will Malloy: Well, curbside recycling accepts more than just drink containers, and the two programs don’t have to be mutually exclusive! 

Juliana Merullo: But the beverage industry is the loudest critic of bottle bills. They have outspent supporters of these programs 30 to 1 when these laws are brought to state or federal lawmakers. 

Will Malloy: They argue that increasing the price of the bottles and cans with the deposit will reduce sales, and that it unfairly targets people who might not have the time or resources to bring the containers back for recycling. 

Juliana Merullo: But one study found that when you compared New England states with and without bottle bills, there was no difference in drink prices.  

Will Malloy: Caroline did say it’s important for policy-makers to consider the impacts of the deposit on lower income individuals.

Juliana Merullo: But this can be addressed with education and by increasing the number of return centers.

Megan Hall: Ok, so overall it seems like these bottle bills are actually a pretty effective way to boost recycling and reduce litter! 

Will Malloy: Definitely!

Megan Hall: That’s it for today. For more information, to find out more about the way your choices affect our planet, go to thepublicsradio.org/possibly. 

You can also follow us on Instagram, Facebook or X at  “askpossibly”

Possibly is a co-production of The Public’s Radio and Brown University’s Institute for Environment and Society, and Brown Climate Solutions Initiative. 

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