Megan Hall: Welcome to Possibly, where we take on huge problems, like the future of our planet, and break them down into small questions with unexpected answers. I’m Megan Hall. 

I’ve been hearing a lot about this landmark climate case in Montana, where a group of young people sued the state, and won. Our senior reporters, Juliana Merullo and Janek Schaller, were following the case closely, and they’re here to fill us in on the details. 

Juliana Merullo: Hiya Megan! 

Janek Schaller: Thanks for having us. 

Megan Hall: So can you tell us more about what this case was all about? 

Juliana Merullo: Sure. Basically, back in 2020 16 young people filed a lawsuit against the state of Montana, and after years of delays, it finally went to trial this summer.

Janek Schaller: The plaintiffs – who ranged in age from 2 to 18 when the lawsuit was filed -basically argued that the state had failed its responsibility to provide a clean and healthy environment for the people who live there. 

Megan Hall: I didn’t realize that states had to provide that! 

Juliana Merullo: Well, most don’t. Only two other states give their residents the right to a healthy environment, and that’s part of what makes Montana so special. 

Janek Schaller: Anne Hedges, the Co-Director of the Montana Environmental Information Center, was an expert witness at the trial. She says that when Montana was re-writing its constitution in the 1970s, 

Anne Hedges: “they created a constitution that had the provision in it that every person has the right to a clean and healthful environment. And that right is a fundamental right, it is not something that we have to go out of our way to implement- we all have that right.  Inherently.”

Janek Schaller: The young people said the state is denying their right to a healthy environment by making climate change worse for them and for future generations. 

Megan Hall: In what way? 

Janek Schaller: They focused on a law that requires environmental impact reports for proposed projects.

Juliana Merullo: That means before the state can offer permits for fossil fuel drilling or a coal mine, they have to do an environmental report first. 

Janek Schaller: But in 2011, the legislature passed an amendment saying those reports couldn’t consider impacts beyond state borders. 

Juliana Merullo: This was called the “climate exception” because it implied emissions – which aren’t kept within state borders – wouldn’t be considered at all in the permitting process. 

Janek Schaller: Then in the spring of 2023, when the trial was about to happen, the legislature amended that same law to say, explicitly this time, that climate change could NOT be used as a reason to block extraction projects.

Megan Hall: Wait, why are these environmental impact reports so important? 

Juliana Merullo: These reports are a key step in getting new extraction projects approved. If they’re not allowed to include the potential climate impacts and emissions of something like a new drill site, then they’re ignoring how it might impact Montana’s clean and healthful environment. 

Janek Schaller: Anne has been involved in these permitting processes for thirty years, and she says

Anne Hedges: Montana has never denied a permit for a fossil fuel project. 

Juliana Merullo: The state basically defended this by arguing that Montana is just a small state, and their emissions don’t matter on a global scale. 

Megan Hall: How did the young people make their case? 

Janek Schaller: Over the course of the trial, their lawyers brought in different experts to testify about the extent of the climate crisis. And the state didn’t contest any of it. As Anne says, 

Anne Hedges: So it’s not that we’re this insignificant, small Podunk contributor to the climate crisis. The experts show that Montana’s emissions and our fossil fuels can have a profound effect on the climate if we’re not careful. And the state had no response to that.

Megan Hall: So, what happened? 

Juliana Merullo: The judge decided in favor of the young people, and even though the state says it will appeal, it was a big win for the climate movement, both symbolically and legally. 

Janek Schaller: From now on, the state will have to consider climate impacts when it makes decisions about fossil fuel projects. 

Juliana Merullo: But beyond just Montana, Anne hopes this case is the first domino to fall when it comes to young people holding their states accountable for climate change. There’s another case in Hawai’i that’s set to go to trial in 2024, and a federal case that’s also working its way through the system. 

Megan Hall: We’ll have to keep our eye on those! Thanks Juliana and Janek! And thanks to Dana Drugmand for her help on this episode. That’s it for today. For more information, or to ask a question about the way your choices affect our planet, go to the publics radio dot org slash Possibly. 

Possibly is a co-production of The Public’s Radio, Brown University’s Institute for Environment and Society and Brown’s Climate Solutions Initiative.

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Megan Hall: Welcome to Possibly, where we take on huge problems like the future of our planet, and break them down into small questions with unexpected answers. I’m Megan Hall. 

In another episode, we talked about a state agency that can play a big role in helping us get more of our energy from renewable sources. Here in Rhode Island, it’s called the Public Utilities Commission. But how do everyday people influence how these commissions work? Juliana Merullo and Janek Schaller are here with some ideas.

Juliana Merullo: Hiya! 

Janek Schaller: Hey Megan! 

Megan Hall: So remind me what is a Public Utilities Commission? 

Juliana Merullo: PUCs, as they’re often called, are state agencies that set rules and regulations for utility companies. This includes making big decisions about renewable energy projects, and helping reduce emissions at the state level. Timmons Roberts, a professor at Brown University who studies PUCs, explains them this way-

Timmons Roberts: Public Utility Commissions are the most powerful important state agencies that you’ve never heard of, a lot of people don’t know even that they exist.

Megan Hall: I get an electric bill every month and I didn’t even know what they were! 

Janek Schaller: That’s partly because these commissions aren’t really designed for public input. A lot of their work is quasi-judicial, which basically just means that they operate sort of like a court does. 

Juliana Merullo: To find out more, we spoke to Marissa Gillete, who is the chairperson of Connecticut’s version of the PUC. 

Marissa Gillete: Everything that we do, every decision we make has to be based on substantial evidence in the record. And it becomes legally binding on the utilities that we regulate.

Janek Schaller: The whole process is pretty formal. There are “cases” and “dockets” and sometimes even oral arguments like in a courtroom. 

Juliana Merullo: And the PUC makes decisions based on the evidence that’s presented to them. Marissa explains it this way- 

Marissa Gillete: let’s just pretend I opened a docket to figure out what color the sky is. And I know and you know, the sky is blue. But if the utility is the only party in my docket, and sometimes early on, it was just the utility, are telling me and they’ve given me evidence that the sky is green, it does not matter. 

Janek Schaller: This can make the PUC decisions pretty one sided if other people don’t participate in this process.

Megan Hall: So how can the public participate and make sure the PUC is hearing all sides? 

Janek Schaller: The process can definitely be tricky to navigate. You can submit a public comment, but Marissa told us the most impactful way to take part is to become what’s called an intervenor. 

Juliana Merullo: That just means you’re allowed to formally participate in the case and present evidence. But, to do that, you need to hire a lawyer and pay for other legal costs. This can be a huge financial barrier to most people who want to get involved.

Janek Schaller: To combat that, some states already have programs that offer funding so that low-income individuals and community groups can go through that process. 

Juliana Merullo: A bill just passed in Connecticut that does the same thing. Timmons Roberts, from Brown, thinks there’s a lot to be done to make Public utility commissions more accessible and understandable. His lab just published a report with recommendations.

Janek Schaller: The report said these PUCs need more funding to make it easier for people to participate, and more outreach and education so more people know what they do! 

Juliana Merullo: In Connecticut, they do this by hosting workshops across the state and posting videos on YouTube.

Megan Hall: That’s great! I have to say though, sometimes it feels like there are so many environmental causes to get involved in… why should people care about this one in particular? 

Janek Schaller: I had a similar thought at first! But Jared Heern, a researcher at Brown studying PUCs across the US, made this point: 

Jared Heern:  if you like it when your lights come on, if you have to pay a electric bill every month, already, you’re affected by the decisions the PUCs make.

Janek Schaller: As we electrify more and more of the grid, people are starting to realize how important these commissions will be in order to reach our emissions reduction goals!

Juliana Merullo: It’s definitely worth keeping an eye on what they’re doing.

Megan Hall: Thanks Juliana and Janek! That’s it for today. For more information, or to ask a question about the way your choices affect our planet, go to the public’s radio dot org slash possibly. Or subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts. 

You can also follow us on Facebook and Twitter- at  “ask possibly”

Possibly is a co-production of The Public’s Radio, Brown University’s Institute for Environment and Society, and Brown’s Climate Solutions Initiative.

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Megan Hall: Welcome to Possibly, where we take on huge problems like the future of our planet, and break them down into small questions with unexpected answers. I’m Megan Hall. 

If we want to avoid the worst of climate change, it’s pretty clear that we need to start getting our energy from sources that don’t create greenhouse gasses- like solar and wind power. But how do we get there? One powerful partner is a state agency you’ve probably never heard of. Juliana Merullo and Janek Schaller from our Possibly team are here to explain.

Juliana Merullo: Hiya! 

Janek Schaller: Hi there!

Megan Hall: So, what’s this obscure state agency that can help us address climate change?  

Juliana Merullo: It’s called a Public Utilities Commission, or PUC for short. In some states, they go by other names like Public Service Commissions.

Megan Hall: And what do they do? 

Janek Schaller: Their exact powers and mandates vary from state to state. But generally, they’re responsible for regulating the privately owned utility companies that supply us with things like electricity, gas, and water. 

Juliana Merullo:  Here in Rhode Island, that utility company is called Rhode Island Energy. You probably get a bill from them every month. The PUC regulates them by setting the rates they can charge, and approving any new infrastructure the utility company wants to invest in. 

Megan Hall: Ok that makes sense. But how are they going to help us reduce our emissions? 

Juliana Merullo: To answer this question, we talked to Jared Heern. He’s a post-doc at Brown who recently published a study on PUCs. He says that in the past, climate change wasn’t even part of their focus. 

Jared Heern: Historically, the mission of public utility Commission’s has just been to ensure reliable service at the lowest possible rates for consumers, while allowing a reasonable return on investment for the utilities. That mission has nothing to do with the environment.

Janek Schaller: But that’s starting to change. Across the country, states are starting to require PUCs to also focus on the environmental impact of their decisions.

Juliana Merullo: This is a big deal because Public Utilities Commissions have the power to push utility companies to invest in renewable energy. And that’s key if we want to reduce our emissions.

Megan Hall: Here in Rhode Island, we’ve passed a couple of bills that set targets for reducing our emissions. Are PUCs part of those efforts?  

Janek Schaller: Yes! In 2022 the Rhode Island legislature passed a bill requiring 100% renewable energy by 2033. But it doesn’t specify how to reach that benchmark.

Juliana Merullo: That’s where the PUC steps in. They’re responsible for transitioning the state off fossil fuel generated electricity and pressuring utility companies to add renewable energy sources to the grid. 

Janek Schaller: Jared, from Brown University, says they can also make it easier, or harder, to build new renewable energy infrastructure. Even if we build as many solar panels or wind turbines as we want, utility companies still need permits to connect them to the grid and use that energy.

Jared Heern: PUC plays a role in those permitting processes and trying to get those expedited and streamlined.

Megan Hall: It sounds like the more we have to electrify, the more important PUCs are going to become. 

Juliana Merullo: Exactly! That’s especially true after the Inflation Reduction Act that was passed last summer. That legislation included billions of dollars in incentives for utilities to build more renewable energy sources. 

Janek Schaller: We wanted to find out how that bill affects PUCs, so we talked to Marissa Gillete. She chairs Connecticut’s version of a PUC. 

Juliana Merullo: Marissa says her commission wants to make sure utilities are using this new federal funding.

Marissa Gillete: We’ve ordered the utilities to track specific funding opportunities, and report back to us on a regular basis for which ones they apply to the ones they didn’t apply to

Juliana Merullo: Connecticut and Rhode Island are great examples of how PUCs can help us shift to using more renewable energy. But not all PUCs are as active on environmental issues.

Janek Schaller:  Just like a lot of climate policy and regulation, the commissions in certain states are blocking action instead of promoting it. 

Juliana Merullo: Recently, more people have started to realize how important PUCs are in fighting climate change and they’re trying to change how those agencies work. But that’s a topic for another episode.

Megan Hall: Awesome, thanks Juliana and Janek!

That’s it for today. For more information, or to ask a question about the way your choices affect our planet, go to the public’s radio dot org slash possibly. Or subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts. 

You can also follow us on Facebook and Twitter at  “ask possibly”

Possibly is a co-production of The Public’s Radio, Brown University’s Institute for Environment and Society, and Brown’s Climate Solutions Initiative.

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